|
 |
Go  |
New |
Find |
Notify |
|
Reply |
|
Admin |
New PM! |
|
|
Elf quoted Roy Greenslade as saying:
The position that has now been reached in English law is that anything that pertains to your private life, and that includes what you do in the street, such as going shopping, is private...
When are people going to realize there is no such thing as privacy anymore. On Greenslade's argument as stated above, even walking down the street, especially in London, one of the most surveyed cities ever means that privacy is extinct. Just because we are Joe Civilian does not mean we are immune from being watched constantly, our credit cards tracked, surveillance of our houses on Google Earth and pictures taken without our consent. The list goes on. And these are things we just take for granted. I can't tell you how many cameras I've seen go up in my area alone to survey actions presumably for red-light offenders.
Besides the groups online that exist to destroy such surveillance cameras I've listed above, what can anyone do these days that protects them from such unwanted intrusive actions taken on by our governments that simultaneously are there to "protect" us and "reveal" us? Such a double edged sword.
I've noticed that the title of this particular forum has changed to encompass a few different aspects that LM was trying to touch on in her various post-trial communications. Perhaps it would be best to have different sub-group forums to talk about each section, because I could go on all day about what I just wrote above, but that doesn't fit exactly into the celebrity privacy debate that the forum is currently titled.
|
| |
|
|
There's something which has been turning in my brain for more than 10 days... Almost two weeks ago I re-red the answer of Greenslade and some sentences left me perplex ... What surprises me, "shocks" me and makes me wonder about our world, it's the way some people are able to think or to see the life. For example, Greenslade wrote : quote: The position that has now been reached in English law is that anything that pertains to your private life, and that includes what you do in the street, such as going shopping, is private
But what we (famous or not) buy or where we can go IS private ! I'm talking about him, but not only. I met many people -most of them are men- who have a total incapacity to think "normally" or to see well things as they are . I know it sounds subjective but its not: some values are universals and some are "universals" only for us as occidentals in our consumer society and could not be well seen in, I don't know, one of the last primitive tribe in the world. And about values, I saw many reports and debates talking about the problem of the young generation "suffering" of a lack of these so precious values. I remember well how specialists told that some teenagers have no notion of privacy at all due to an education by uncontrolled media, seeing everything about everyone's life and absolutely think that there's nothing wrong to film with their mobil phone friends of them slamming others schoolers -or teachers!- and put the film or the photos on the web (and I'm not talking about the fact that they don't even have the idea to help the attacked one, as if watching the scene in the small screen of their mobil made they were not real witnesses anymore!) But reading Greenslade's answer, I realized that not only teenagers have this problem of values. Apparently, as too many people, he takes as normal something which is not and I see much more the importance of the judgement of Loreena's process. Really, thank you because it's more than time to give back to important and essential values the place they should have and I think this victory participated to it. In the same idea he said: quote: Finally, and crucially, I believe that people should be as free as possible to express themselves, even if it impinges on another person's privacy on occasion".
!!! ? And I don't know if this one is not the worst! I don't even understand how he manage to write this...?... --- Greenslade also wrote, quoting (if I followed well) Clare Dyer who quoted Hugh Tomlinson QC (!...) : quote: This judgment is a turning point in the development of English privacy law. It means the courts will not allow publication of 'kiss and tell' stories after the breakdown of a friendship or relationship.
"At the same time, the court of appeal rejected the argument that a person who tells their own story to the press gives up their future privacy rights. The effect on the tabloids could be dramatic.
!!! does he expect us to be sad?! Because he really seems to be affected by this. And here, it's very twisted: not only lots of them (=him and people like him) are not able to to define what should be their values but also where they should be. They hang up to these tabloids and "kiss and tell" stories as if humanity would be lost without these things and we would be close to the end of the world (didn't I already say that I'm happy that it's more the end of THEIR world?...) Always quoting Dyer, he wrote in the same way: quote: She added that unauthorised biographies could be particularly affected.
Well, if they are unauthorised it's a little bit normal that they are affected one day! No? It's amazing that some people (and unfortunately not few) can think it's natural to let raptors do what they want: these "writers"/"journalists" who authorize themselves to write the life of someone else without his consent. How can they be so interested in others ' life (and I'm talking here of course about writing only answering to this insane greed about details of famous people's life and not a real historical portrait of a politician or a past writer, for example)? I know that there was always this thing in our society: fairy tales (as Cinderella) was already a way for "basic" people to live through their leaders' life (king, prince, etc.) but we went too far . Today, paparazzi would have probably tried to have a photo of Cinderella half necked or one of what she bought last week-end to the supermarket. I understand that it helped "poor people" to hear fairy tales and showed them a good way to behave by following the story's moral but what I just like to add about this thirst of famous people's life, it's this little sentence from old asiatic wisdom: (it's not exactly this but it's the meaning) "The time spent to live the dream of someone else it's a time you won't spend on your own dream"- |
| |
| Posts: 201 | Location: Paris or in the forest, but always close to a tree | Registered: March 01, 2007 | |
|
|
Hi
I don´t know in depth the case and the people involved in it. But what little I know (I have read the article by Mr. Roy Greenslade), I can only say 3 things:
1, the freedom of expression is being used in many places (including Spain) for insulting and even destroy people, walking(this freedom of expression) on the border of the law. And this is a big business for many "journalists".
2, After a discussion/confrontation, sure many people would do a catharsis exercise, but if this exercise is about a "memories book"of the other person, Does it have validity?(this memory book).
3, Mr Roy Greenslade said "...legal action to ban 38 separate sections be deleted, some of them as small as five lines" I think that, in only 5 lines can be done much harm/damage, Mr Greenslade.
Finally only express my sympathy to Loreena and your team
And as always feel my limitations in the use of the English language, on this occasion even more than others.
|
| |
| Posts: 12 | Location: Málaga/Spain | Registered: March 02, 2007 | |
|
|
A little out of the subject but ... as we were arguing last week on the blog of the courageous Greenslade, 2 greats french journalists died. I only learnt it yesterday and I didn't have the time to come here to write it. I do it tonight because I think they deserve a thought, them and all the one we don't know all over the wordl but who are to the service to the information. The first on one was a great woman, photo reporter, who paradoxically died of a a brain aneurysm whereas she survived to many conflicts and wars: *Alexandra Boulay died -New York Times**The Art of Photojournalism* And the second was a journalist who wrote books about the decline of the press. He was a real professional aware of what was becoming journalism in France (and abroad) and fought with very hard and "pickling" (?) words against this decline. *Bernard Morrot* ... quote: Originally posted by Shan-Lyn:
These are very wise words...
Thank you for sharing them.
Thank you. In "some" years, you have time to learn few things... The VERY OLD Elf... |
| |
| Posts: 201 | Location: Paris or in the forest, but always close to a tree | Registered: March 01, 2007 | |
|
|
quote: Originally posted by me:
(about forgivness)
But, to my eyes, not very welcome one week after the end of a process and some days after big discussions about it, where the victim is still assaulted or attacked...
Sorry it's just my point of view, of course, not a sentence "in the idea to answer instead of Loreena." It's her case and I was just thinking that if I was her, I would have probably thought that was too early to talk to me about forgiveness. - |
| |
| Posts: 201 | Location: Paris or in the forest, but always close to a tree | Registered: March 01, 2007 | |
|
|
quote: Originally posted by Airish:
I thought Mr Greenslade had two options:
1- To answer all Loreena's questions.
2- To admit his errors.
But there was a different opcion: 'Comments are now closed on this entry' he has chosen the most cowardly way. I'm afraid we all wait for something like that.
I totally agree with D.J.Laws and IrNfromParis.
Laura
Aye Laura, I fully agree. That is a coward's way out. He could have at least humbly admitted, "I don't know the answers". Even if he didn't know the answers, I think Loreena instructed him quite well, wouldn't one say?  Warm blessings, Shan-Lyn |
| |
|
|
quote: Originally posted by Very Old Elf:
<snip>
When you love or care for someone, you're generally very careful about how you share or show what you are and what happened to you. It's something which takes time.
You know, you don't say all the 1rst day you meet. You choose good moment to say an important thing (important thing to your eyes, not specially for every one).
On in the same idea, you also cherish what someone you love, gives to you.
<snip>
So for me it's unthinkable to read this book.
And if Loreena decides one day to give us something from her -as the book she planed to do- it will be much much more precious to all who love her because she would have shared part of her with us. (sorry if the verbs are not at the good time...)
<snip>
The almost dead elf
*
Dear "Elf that is alive", ;-) These are very wise words... Thank you for sharing them. Warm blessings, Shan-Lyn |
| |
|
|
I corrected my previous post and it must be now more easy to read or more coherent...(sorry, as I said, I'm "double working" since september and at the end of the week I don't know my name anymore).I wanted to add that I'm very careful of the behaviour of Niema because it seems she has a common point with the woman who harassed me: they show themselves has victim and person to complain. So, I know how some people are able to do very terrible things and to obtain other people's compassion, managing by this same way to discredit their own "victim". About forgivness... Perhaps it's a little early to write this word. It's a long processus to arrive there and you're allowed to stop on the way. It's true, it's a nice thing. But, to my eyes, not very welcome one week after the end of a process and some days after big discussions about it, where the victim is still assaulted or attacked... quote: Originally posted by Airish:
'Comments are now closed on this entry' he has chosen the most cowardly way. I'm afraid we all wait for something like that.
Well, I'm not surprised... But what astonished me by reading last post of Loreena, it's that Greenslade is regarded as a media expert and educator and he has students ! quote: Originally posted by dlaws99:
Don't die, Elf...
Thank you Dennis  quote: Originally posted by Airish:
I totally agree with D.J.Laws and IrNfromParis.
Thank you too Laura. Best regards. -
|
| |
| Posts: 201 | Location: Paris or in the forest, but always close to a tree | Registered: March 01, 2007 | |
|
|
In the short time I've been following Loreena Mckennitt's journey of self discovery and musical travel writing, I have learned what an extraordinary person she is. Her voice lifts the spirit when she sings, it awakens the mind when she speaks. Her writing translates with intelligence, authority and reason. As an example, in Loreena's open letter to The Globe entitled "Who watches the watchdog" she has completely destroyed their credibility and argument against a right to privacy, celebrity or not. Once again I've been inspired to write because Loreena Mckennitt is someone we ALL should be lisitening to regarding one's right to privacy. I completely support her right to privacy and feel justice has been served. I look
forward to Loreena's OWN words when she releases her book later this year, as has been noted on this website. It shall be a privilege to gain insight into her life based what she wants to share with us.
Thank-you Mark, QR and LM for opening up this message board and sharing all the facts of this case and to all the members for their excellent responses.
Finally, Congratulations Loreena! When I stand and appluad you and your band's performace next Sat Night in Prov. RI it will be loud and long, for a great burden has been lifted from you and for that I am overjoyed!
Robert
|
| |
| Posts: 10 | Location: Danvers, Ma | Registered: March 18, 2007 | |
|
|
|
greetings, since comments regarding this topic have been closed at the old-ways list and greenslade blog, i thought to offer a few simple thoughts via this public forum. in reference to niema's book, initially, i only focused on the lines but then learned to read between them. i believe that loreena was right in using the legal system as a means to protect her dignity, privacy, and livelihood. if she hadn't, then who would? finally, thoughts of forgiveness keep surfacing and i believe that the following excerpts are worthy of sharing (from a pbs commentary about "amish grace"): "...forgiveness heals the person who offers it, freeing that person to move on in life with a greater sense of vitality and wholeness." "In fact, forgiveness is less a matter of forgive and forget than of forgive and remember -- remembering in ways that bring healing. When we remember we take the broken pieces of our lives -- lives that have been dismembered by tragedy and injustice -- and re-member them into something whole. Forgetting an atrocious offense, personally or corporately, may not be possible, but all of us can and do make decisions about how we remember what we cannot forget." for more on forgiveness, please visit: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week1103/interview5.html chispas |
| |
|
|
|
Jeanne...
I've just this year become acquainted with Loreena, coming in late to the case. In fact, even though I've tried to catch up, I really didn't know Loreena's side until she explained it in her last post on Greenslade's blog. I tried to confine my observations over there to the more general issue of privacy over press freedom to which I can speak. There are two points I can make regarding McKennitt vs Ash. First is contracts and agreements are legally binding. They're there to ensure both parties are going to do what they say they're going to do. They actually protect both parties and ensure there are no surprises. Business would be chaos without them. Loreena is an astute business woman and entering into contractural agreements is something I'm sure she is well versed in. She obviously felt she had to act because you don't subject yourself to 2 and a half years of legal grief because you enjoy it. Second, harboring a grudge is a very difficult thing to do. It could go on for years, consuming you all the way. Let's hope now that the trial is over, Ms. Ash can let it go and find some peace.
You know, the day before the London concert in April, I was walking down Fleet Street and as I was taking a picture of the Royal Courts of Justice, that magnificent building, the thought crossed my mind: "hmmm...I'll bet they're in there arguing that case right now...". At the time I only thought is was a simple civil action and not the substantial case it was.
//Dennis//
Don't die, Elf...
|
| |
| Posts: 153 | Location: Monterey CA | Registered: May 22, 2007 | |
|
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
© 2008 Quinlan Road Limited.
|
